The Wall of Sheep Grows and Grows!
Well, here we have the second part of possibly multiple sheep
postings. This was taken from a very long chat I had in the
Christian Chat rooms in Yahoo, broken down into smaller parts.
The different subjects covered during this long chat have been
grouped, and edited for better reading. This one is kinda long,
but worth the read! Keep checking back for the Wall of Sheep!
- squirrel624: how did judas die?
menzke: suicide I think
grace2u2: at his own hands.......
squirrel624: the bible says 2 different things
menzke: tell me
menzke: What 2 things?
squirrel624: hold on.. let me find the verses
grace2u2: english translations of the Greek says two things.....that
is SO WRONG and NOT CONSISTANT, isn't it.
squirrel624: matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him,
when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought
again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.
And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed,
and went and hanged himself.
6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is
not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the
price of blood.
7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field,
to bury strangers in.
8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this
squirrel624: but in the book of acts we read a different story....
squirrel624: acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the
midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together
were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled,
which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning
Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity;
and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his
bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch
as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that
is to say, The field of blood.
squirrel624: so menke how did judas die?
menzke: How is it different
squirrel624: menzke... in one he hangs himself, in the other,
he falls headlong and his bowels spill out
squirrel624: see the difference?
menzke: Doesn't seem contradictive to me
squirrel624: menzke? are you kidding...
menzke: falling headlong can not be hanging?
grace2u2: Well, that contradiction is very interesting, but has
NOTHING to do with the TRUTHS revealed in jesus Christ.
squirrel624: menzke.... so you are saying that even though
the bible says judas died 2 different ways, there is no contradiction?
grace2u2: The WAY of salvation through jesus Christ IS NEVER CONTRADICTORY.
squirrel624: grace.,.. you need to read your bible... jesus
told the rich man how to get eternal life,
grace2u2: were you there? how do you not know that the rope didnt
break after he died causing him to fall head long
grace2u2: the ROPE BROKE, and he GUSHED OUT when he landed....
grace2u2: RATS in the FIELD, I guess...gnawed the darn ROPE!
squirrel624: GRACE??? HOW DO YOU FALL HEADLONG FROM A HANGING
aliciainc: hung himself, hung there a long time and then fallen
onto the rocky crag below, cutting himself.
squirrel624: alicainic, show me that in the bible please...
aliciainc: You can fall headlong if you are suspended, swinging
in the wind and a branch breaks.
aliciainc: The Bible doesn't say that Judas died in two different
ways...it gives 2 differing accounts. That's not necessarily a
squirrel624: aliciainc : What you are saying is that ' Judas
definitely died' ?????
grace2u2: Judas was a "little" man, so his BIG FAT HEAD
outweighed the REST of him.
willie383: sure if he was on a cliff and his foot caught a rock,
going down causing his body to flip
squirrel624: anything to get out of a contradiction huh?
aliciainc: I'm not saying that that is THE explanation, just that
there are reasonable explanations for the "apparent"
aliciainc: The Bible says that Judas did hang himself...so he
did. It also says he fell headlong, etc. He very well could have
grace2u2: NOT POSSIBLE....I just CAN"T BELIEVE IT.......NOT
LOGICAL.....now THAT is a good way to look at God and what he
teaches us in his Word to us.
squirrel624: alicianic, and another reasonable explanation
is the bible is wrong... in fact with occums razor... it is a
more valid reason than going to all the trouble to explain it
squirrel624: grace... sorry but you are obviously a milk christian
aliciainc: Actually, there are enough instances where the Bible
is correct that I believe Occums razor would require at least
aliciainc: the possibility that there are better explanations
than just "It is wrong."
aliciainc: i am just saying that you cannot say it wasnt true
any more than you understand alot of things about God. You are
human and therefore cannot know all things as he knows them and
you shouldnt take a possition that states that God is a liar,
you#re treading touchy ground
squirrel624: so.,... alicainic.. does the bible support your
rope explanation? or does the bible support the error??
grace2u2: I am one who TAKES NO CONFIDENCE in one's OWN self,
I just trust in my God whio IS TRUTH.
squirrel624: grace... so you do not have the brains to think
for yourself... thanks...
aliciainc: The Bible says it is without error. Obviously, none
of us was there to see how/why Judas fell. We simply know that
squirrel624: No alicia, you believe it. And since the bible
says it is without error, you must establish that it indeed is.
If I can show just one single instance where the bible is in error,
your position falls. And the reliability of bible is not established.
squirrel624: alicainic, it also begs the question of the reliability,
you have yet to establish that the bible is truthful in all aspects...
grace2u2: squirrel, you just SHOWED us the Bible Scriptures, I
just MADE my theory BASED on them as PROOFS.
aliciainc: HAve you read a book called The Case for Christ? or
How about Mere Christianity?
squirrel624: aliciainc and grace: Similarly none of us was
there to witness the resurrection of Jesus !!!!
squirrel624: grace, and your theory is not biblically supported
squirrel624: alicainic... yes the case for christ from stroebel,
and the cs lewis book as well.
aliciainc: Both do a good job of supporting the veracity of the
scriptures. This room is not a good place to get into deep philosophical
discussions. Too busy.
aliciainc: True on the resurrection, but we have first hand accounts.
squirrel624: alicainic, there are no first hand accounts of
the resurrection... sorry
squirrel624: the gospels are not first hand accounts alicainc...
aliciainc: You are correct, they are second hand accounts which
were propogated during the witnesses lifetimes. Still, pretty
squirrel624: no. they are second hand accounts in some instances,
and thrid or fourth hand in others, and nothing more than hearsay.
squirrel624: also. propaganda...
aliciainc: They are second hand accounts, I agreed with that.
But that does not mean they are not trustworthy. It also doesn't
mean they are "propaganda".
grace2u2: YOu are wise IN YOUR OWN EYES, squirrel, which is great
for your ego..... but when it comes to things of God, you are
IN THE DARKEST place of disbelief.
squirrel624: alicia, the gospel of john says it is propganda:
john 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence
of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is
the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life
through his name.
grace2u2: darkness will HAVE you, if you do not GET SOME LIGHT.
squirrel624: grace... milk christians interest me very little.
aliciainc: They were written to educate and illuminate the facts
to those who were not there to witness it. Propaganda has a negative
grace2u2: The GRACE of our Lord Jesus is the MEAT of God....what
MILK are you souring?
grace2u2: little curds of INCONSISTANCIES, squirrel.
squirrel624: grace.-... give it up you are a failure to witness
for god. thanks
grace2u2: You don't even KNOW Christ Jesus in His Glorious truth,
you are picking on WORDS and PHRASES.
aliciainc: Tell me, squirrel, what is it that you do believe?
squirrel624: grace i have a challenge for you... are you christian
enough to take it?
grace2u2: he believes HIMSELF over God, that is all.
squirrel624: alicainic, former christian. current atheist.
aliciainc: Why the loss of faith...or were you just going through
the motions in the past?
squirrel624: ummm alicainic... nope. but that is not the issue
here is it?
aliciainc: I think it is.
aliciainc: There is a difference in discussing the Bible with
one who is earnestly searching as opposed to one who is simply
looking for a fight.
grace2u2: I am not willing to sit here for more of your rantings,
which have NOTHING whatsoever to do with LIFE in Christ. I need
a break, bad timing, squirrel, NEXT time I am up for it though.
squirrel624: i am not looking for a fight. i earnestly searched
for the "truth" and it was not in the bible, and I notice
how you try to change the subject to me and my loss of faith as
not to continue the defense of soemthing you know you cannot defend.
The bible is its own worst enemy.
squirrel624: grace you will never be up for it.
squirrel624: better yet grace, I have a list of contradicitons
for you wanna read it?
aliciainc: squirrel, I'd love that. can you e-mail them to me?
squirrel624: sure alicainic
grace2u2: The TRUTH about your salvation is NOWHERE contradicted.
aliciainc: squirrel, I didn't mean to pry. It just hurts my heart
to hear that a christian no longer believes in God.