Baby christians and killing.....
Well, here we have another little ditty so to speak about
a small chat I had with a christian. I was in the buddhist mode
partly,a nd thought it was a decent chat for the Sheep Master.
Hope you like it. As usual, my responses are in bold text.
- lil_lioness913: My personal reason is because since i have chosen
follow him he has changed my life in amazing ways.
melancholy_banana: i see
lil_lioness913: you don't believe me do you...
melancholy_banana: grrrr i was booted out of the room
melancholy_banana: actually.... to be honest no....
lil_lioness913: I figured as much, i am not surprised that you
lil_lioness913: if you don't mind my asking, what do you believe
melancholy_banana: i am an atheist with buddhist tendencies
lil_lioness913: alright. Do you have strong belief in that faith?
melancholy_banana: hmmm i would not say that is a belief. you
buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy
melancholy_banana: religion is too restrictive...
lil_lioness913: many people tell me that it is more a philosophy,
it is classified as a religion to my knowledge.
lil_lioness913: there is religion and their is faith.
lil_lioness913: i think that if you knew me better you would be
believe that JEsus has changed my life.. if you knew my family
you might understand.
melancholy_banana: i would disagree as to it being a religion,
the buddhist belief teaches to test all things, and if they stand
the testing..accept it, if they do not stand up.. you may safely
it as truth. does chrisiianity do that?
lil_lioness913: Does christianity test things? Very much so.
melancholy_banana: i think if you knew me better you would
following the 8fold path has changed me and made me a better person
melancholy_banana: does christianity allow you to disregard parts
own teaching as not truth if it fails the test? and if so which
lil_lioness913: i believe that is possible... We test things against
the Bible most often, and with our own knowlege nad understanding.
melancholy_banana: what parts of christianity are false then?
lil_lioness913: as far as i am concerned, Christianity that follows
Bible is not false. There are some denominations that i believe
really following the bible.
melancholy_banana: so there is nothing false about the bible
melancholy_banana: i see. so it is okay for people to be killed
lil_lioness913: According to the ten commandments murder is wrong,
Thou shalt not kill.
melancholy_banana: but if god directly orders it, is it wrong?
And is it murder?
lil_lioness913: God wouldn't order that which he considers wrong.
melancholy_banana: so then killing is not wrong, as god did
melancholy_banana: many times
lil_lioness913: Where is it that you believe he ordered it.
melancholy_banana: the bible.. in the book of 1 samuel i think
the killing of the amelakites... and then he ordered the killing
people of Ai, and also the canaanites...the old testament is filled
with this... if the bible is not wrong..then god ordered killing,
he would not order what he thought was wrong, killing is good
lil_lioness913: first i think it is important for you to know
that i am
a new Christian. I have been a christian for about 5 years. I
studying and gaining understanding. I realize that the old testement
has many wars and other such fights where people died. I don't
understand why it happend... because i don't.
melancholy_banana: but if the bible is not wrong.... you must
ordered killing. whether or not you understand it is besides the
lil_lioness913: simple because something is said to have happened
the Bible doesn't mean that God considers the action good.
melancholy_banana: wait a sec... you just said god would not
anything that he thought was bad.. why did you change?
lil_lioness913: i don't believe that he would order something
sees as wrong. I am not changing on that.. i do not claim to know
why he does everything he does.
melancholy_banana: okay so now you do not believe that he would
bad things... okay... so when god ordered killing, was it good
melancholy_banana: and when god killed, like the first born of
and the people in the flood was it good or bad?
lil_lioness913: i do not believe that God would order Bad things
melancholy_banana: so the killing in the flood and egypt was
lil_lioness913: no, i don't think that it was good.. and as i
God said that he would never do such a thing again..
melancholy_banana: so god did a bad thing? right?
lil_lioness913: i honestly don'y think that i am the best person
answer your questions..
lil_lioness913: how long have you been buddhist?
melancholy_banana: about 7 years
lil_lioness913: i have been a christian for a short time and am
learning and i don't think i can do justice to your questions
lil_lioness913: i appologise.
melancholy_banana: maybe.. but to be honest, i know a pastor
the same trouble you have now.
lil_lioness913: the question you pose is a very good question.
lil_lioness913: that surprises me..
melancholy_banana: why does it suprise you?
lil_lioness913: because i know my pastor has preached on the topic
doesn't seem to have a difficult time, it was just before i began
attending the church i now attend.
melancholy_banana: they have the following problem... if god
good, and perfect, then by default anything he orders is just
as well. god ordered killing, therefore it was perfect and just.
wanted blood sacrifices, therefore it was good. if the bible is
then killing ordered by god is good.
lil_lioness913: i would have to say yes.
lil_lioness913: but i would say right, not good.
melancholy_banana: right? then it is right to kill babies?
and again if
god is all good, then nothing ungood can come from him
melancholy_banana: babies died in the flood, babies died in the
slaughter of the first born of egypt.
melancholy_banana: babies died when the israelites went to
lil_lioness913: i don't think i can answer these questions to
melancholy_banana: do you think you can answer them to YOUR
lil_lioness913: at the moment, no, and i am talking to another
christian who i am hoping can help me understand. I don't understand
that is in the bible and therefore i can't answer your questions.
lil_lioness913: or mine.
lil_lioness913: i believe that God knows best and what came of
happened was right.
lil_lioness913: the thing is he is both Loving and Just.
lil_lioness913: not just loving.
melancholy_banana: i see... so in other words... it is okay
said so, it matters little whether one understands it.... just
lil_lioness913: you are twisting my words.
melancholy_banana: that is not very compassionate.
melancholy_banana: no i am just saying what you are trying to
without saying it.
lil_lioness913: no, you are not.
lil_lioness913: you are saying what you think i am trying to say.
lil_lioness913: the great flood, the death of the first born,
death of pharohs army were due to the actions of man. they were
punishment for actions that were wrong.
melancholy_banana: the punishments of the first born was a
punishment for the actions of man. it was done to prove a point,
and if you
read it closely god hardened the heart of the pharoah
melancholy_banana: so that no matter what would have been done,
outcome would be the same
lil_lioness913: yes God hardened his heart, i know that, but it
punishment for the years of slavery that Pharoh has inflicted
lil_lioness913: no, the outcome came from mans action.,
melancholy_banana: no the outcome was from the direct will
of god, god
could have not hardened the heart, yet god did so, this lead to
death of the first born brought about by gods action of hardening
heart of pharoah. causing him to not allow the jews to go free,
and if i
remember correctly, he allowed them to be taken as slaves in the
place. (even though there is no record of the egyptians ever using
population the supposed size of the hebrews....)
lil_lioness913: yes, he could have choosen to not harden the heart
the pharoh, but he did not. There are records of egypt using slaves,
it started cause of mans choice to have slaves.
lil_lioness913: honestly.. this isn't getting us anywhere.. it
turning into an argument.,
melancholy_banana: do you forget that god allowed for and regulated
usage of slaves? there are no records of a hebrew population of
size ever in egypt. but back to choice.. so god choose the route
lead to the killing of the first born... and if god knows it all...
knew exactly that he would kill those babies...
melancholy_banana: view this as an exercise.... you will meet
that will not be as near as gentle as i have been in asking the
as i have. some questions are not able to be answered, as it would
paint the christian god in a good light in any way or form. some
your above statements, shifted to a degree once the question was
than once... do you understand what i mean?
lil_lioness913: my above statements changed as i read some thing
bible and thought. I realise that not everything i say paints
my God in
a good light but that is my fault, not his.
lil_lioness913: and you were not that gentle.
melancholy_banana: to your preceptions, maybe,
lil_lioness913: i can't view them from anyone elses perception.
melancholy_banana: true enough
melancholy_banana: if it did not seem gentle,. then my apologies
lil_lioness913: i don't think appologies are in order, other then
sorry that you hold my Lord in such low esteem.
melancholy_banana: the compassion of the Buddha for all sentient
to no longer perish is the only truth, the compassion shown
man, or to the chosen few is not compassion, but a poison to further
and inflict suffering upon all sentient beings.
melancholy_banana: jesus came first to the house of israel.
opened it to the gentiles... the buddha traveled the 8fold path
beings, not only the jews, or the gentiles, but for ALL beings.
from the bug
to the man...to the bird... that is compassion.