Baby christians and killing.....

  • Well, here we have another little ditty so to speak about a small chat I had with a christian. I was in the buddhist mode partly,a nd thought it was a decent chat for the Sheep Master. Hope you like it. As usual, my responses are in bold text.

  • lil_lioness913: My personal reason is because since i have chosen to
    follow him he has changed my life in amazing ways.
    melancholy_banana: i see
    lil_lioness913: you don't believe me do you...
    melancholy_banana: grrrr i was booted out of the room
    melancholy_banana: actually.... to be honest no....

    lil_lioness913: I figured as much, i am not surprised that you don't
    believe me.
    lil_lioness913: if you don't mind my asking, what do you believe in?
    melancholy_banana: i am an atheist with buddhist tendencies
    lil_lioness913: alright. Do you have strong belief in that faith?
    melancholy_banana: hmmm i would not say that is a belief. you see
    buddhism is not a religion, it is a philosophy
    melancholy_banana: religion is too restrictive...

    lil_lioness913: many people tell me that it is more a philosophy, but
    it is classified as a religion to my knowledge.
    lil_lioness913: there is religion and their is faith.
    lil_lioness913: i think that if you knew me better you would be able to
    believe that JEsus has changed my life.. if you knew my family i think
    you might understand.
    melancholy_banana: i would disagree as to it being a religion, because
    the buddhist belief teaches to test all things, and if they stand up to
    the testing..accept it, if they do not stand up.. you may safely reject
    it as truth. does chrisiianity do that?

    lil_lioness913: Does christianity test things? Very much so.
    melancholy_banana: i think if you knew me better you would see that
    following the 8fold path has changed me and made me a better person
    melancholy_banana: does christianity allow you to disregard parts of it
    own teaching as not truth if it fails the test? and if so which parts?

    lil_lioness913: i believe that is possible... We test things against
    the Bible most often, and with our own knowlege nad understanding.
    melancholy_banana: what parts of christianity are false then?
    lil_lioness913: as far as i am concerned, Christianity that follows the
    Bible is not false. There are some denominations that i believe are not
    really following the bible.
    melancholy_banana: so there is nothing false about the bible then

    lil_lioness913: Yes.
    melancholy_banana: i see. so it is okay for people to be killed if god
    ordered it?

    lil_lioness913: According to the ten commandments murder is wrong,
    Thou shalt not kill.
    melancholy_banana: but if god directly orders it, is it wrong? And is it murder?
    lil_lioness913: God wouldn't order that which he considers wrong.
    melancholy_banana: so then killing is not wrong, as god did indeed
    order it

    melancholy_banana: many times
    lil_lioness913: Where is it that you believe he ordered it.
    melancholy_banana: the bible.. in the book of 1 samuel i think it was,
    the killing of the amelakites... and then he ordered the killing of the
    people of Ai, and also the canaanites...the old testament is filled
    with this... if the bible is not wrong..then god ordered killing, and if
    he would not order what he thought was wrong, killing is good when he
    orders it...

    lil_lioness913: first i think it is important for you to know that i am
    a new Christian. I have been a christian for about 5 years. I am still
    studying and gaining understanding. I realize that the old testement
    has many wars and other such fights where people died. I don't claim to
    understand why it happend... because i don't.
    melancholy_banana: but if the bible is not wrong.... you must admit god
    ordered killing. whether or not you understand it is besides the point.

    lil_lioness913: simple because something is said to have happened in
    the Bible doesn't mean that God considers the action good.
    melancholy_banana: wait a sec... you just said god would not order
    anything that he thought was bad.. why did you change?

    lil_lioness913: i don't believe that he would order something that he
    sees as wrong. I am not changing on that.. i do not claim to know though
    why he does everything he does.
    melancholy_banana: okay so now you do not believe that he would order
    bad things... okay... so when god ordered killing, was it good or bad?
    melancholy_banana: and when god killed, like the first born of egypt,

    and the people in the flood was it good or bad?
    lil_lioness913: i do not believe that God would order Bad things no..
    melancholy_banana: so the killing in the flood and egypt was good?
    lil_lioness913: no, i don't think that it was good.. and as i recall
    God said that he would never do such a thing again..
    melancholy_banana: so god did a bad thing? right?
    lil_lioness913: i honestly don'y think that i am the best person to
    answer your questions..
    lil_lioness913: how long have you been buddhist?
    melancholy_banana: about 7 years
    lil_lioness913: i have been a christian for a short time and am still
    learning and i don't think i can do justice to your questions which are
    important ones..
    lil_lioness913: i appologise.
    melancholy_banana: maybe.. but to be honest, i know a pastor that has
    the same trouble you have now.

    lil_lioness913: the question you pose is a very good question.
    lil_lioness913: that surprises me..
    melancholy_banana: why does it suprise you?
    lil_lioness913: because i know my pastor has preached on the topic and
    doesn't seem to have a difficult time, it was just before i began
    attending the church i now attend.
    melancholy_banana: they have the following problem... if god is all
    good, and perfect, then by default anything he orders is just and perfect
    as well. god ordered killing, therefore it was perfect and just. god
    wanted blood sacrifices, therefore it was good. if the bible is true,
    then killing ordered by god is good.

    lil_lioness913: i would have to say yes.
    lil_lioness913: but i would say right, not good.
    melancholy_banana: right? then it is right to kill babies? and again if
    god is all good, then nothing ungood can come from him
    melancholy_banana: babies died in the flood, babies died in the
    slaughter of the first born of egypt.

    melancholy_banana: babies died when the israelites went to war
    melancholy_banana: sorry

    lil_lioness913: i don't think i can answer these questions to your
    melancholy_banana: do you think you can answer them to YOUR

    lil_lioness913: at the moment, no, and i am talking to another
    christian who i am hoping can help me understand. I don't understand everything
    that is in the bible and therefore i can't answer your questions.
    lil_lioness913: or mine.
    lil_lioness913: i believe that God knows best and what came of what
    happened was right.
    lil_lioness913: the thing is he is both Loving and Just.
    lil_lioness913: not just loving.
    melancholy_banana: i see... so in other words... it is okay since god
    said so, it matters little whether one understands it.... just that it
    is just.

    lil_lioness913: you are twisting my words.
    melancholy_banana: that is not very compassionate.
    melancholy_banana: no i am just saying what you are trying to say
    without saying it.

    lil_lioness913: no, you are not.
    lil_lioness913: you are saying what you think i am trying to say.
    lil_lioness913: the great flood, the death of the first born, and the
    death of pharohs army were due to the actions of man. they were
    punishment for actions that were wrong.
    melancholy_banana: the punishments of the first born was a not a
    punishment for the actions of man. it was done to prove a point, and if you
    read it closely god hardened the heart of the pharoah
    melancholy_banana: so that no matter what would have been done, the
    outcome would be the same

    lil_lioness913: yes God hardened his heart, i know that, but it was
    punishment for the years of slavery that Pharoh has inflicted on his
    lil_lioness913: no, the outcome came from mans action.,
    melancholy_banana: no the outcome was from the direct will of god, god
    could have not hardened the heart, yet god did so, this lead to the
    death of the first born brought about by gods action of hardening the
    heart of pharoah. causing him to not allow the jews to go free, and if i
    remember correctly, he allowed them to be taken as slaves in the first
    place. (even though there is no record of the egyptians ever using a slave
    population the supposed size of the hebrews....)

    lil_lioness913: yes, he could have choosen to not harden the heart of
    the pharoh, but he did not. There are records of egypt using slaves, and
    it started cause of mans choice to have slaves.
    lil_lioness913: honestly.. this isn't getting us anywhere.. it is
    turning into an argument.,
    melancholy_banana: do you forget that god allowed for and regulated the
    usage of slaves? there are no records of a hebrew population of that
    size ever in egypt. but back to choice.. so god choose the route that
    lead to the killing of the first born... and if god knows it all... he
    knew exactly that he would kill those babies...
    melancholy_banana: view this as an exercise.... you will meet people
    that will not be as near as gentle as i have been in asking the questions
    as i have. some questions are not able to be answered, as it would not
    paint the christian god in a good light in any way or form. some of
    your above statements, shifted to a degree once the question was asked more
    than once... do you understand what i mean?

    lil_lioness913: my above statements changed as i read some thing in my
    bible and thought. I realise that not everything i say paints my God in
    a good light but that is my fault, not his.
    lil_lioness913: and you were not that gentle.
    melancholy_banana: to your preceptions, maybe,
    lil_lioness913: i can't view them from anyone elses perception.
    melancholy_banana: true enough
    melancholy_banana: if it did not seem gentle,. then my apologies

    lil_lioness913: i don't think appologies are in order, other then i am
    sorry that you hold my Lord in such low esteem.
    melancholy_banana: the compassion of the Buddha for all sentient beings
    to no longer perish is the only truth, the compassion shown only to
    man, or to the chosen few is not compassion, but a poison to further cause
    and inflict suffering upon all sentient beings.

    lil_lioness913: *hrm..*
    melancholy_banana: jesus came first to the house of israel. and paul
    opened it to the gentiles... the buddha traveled the 8fold path for ALL
    beings, not only the jews, or the gentiles, but for ALL beings. from the bug
    to the the bird... that is compassion.

    lil_lioness913: *hrm..*

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