Hello
gentle reader, today we look at the doctrine of the Trinity.
You know, the concept that God is a triune deity, or three in
one godhead type deal. Three equals one, and one equals three
when you ask a Christian. Some neato math huh? I have not been
able to figure it out myself, although I am sure that it is
only my finite human mind. My wisdom is limited and all that
when it comes to god and really understanding the scriptures.
Scriptures: lets look and see when we actually get the
trinity from, in the bible of course, even though there is no
single verse or group of verses ANYWHERE in the bible that says
that god is a trinity.
(All for one and one for all and all that)…so off we
go…(note: these are the four major verses used to justify the
trinity belief judge for yourself)
(All
King James unless otherwise noted)
1
Peter 1:2
2
Elect
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification
of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of
Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1
John 5:7
7
For
there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the
Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
2
Cor. 13:14
14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and
the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
Matt
28:19
19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Now
if you can gather that these verses justify the trinity, then
they flat contradict other verses in the bible, that are pretty
clear about god and all being one, and if they do not justify
it, then just leave em alone okay? Do any of you all understand
this ? Hmmm… I do not either. And neither does most of the Christian
apologists, lets see what a few of them have to say:
M.R.
DeHaan, 508 Answers to Bible Questions, page 168
The
Trinity, that is three persons in one, is a mystery which
is revealed in the Bible, but cannot be understood by the human
mind. Since man is finite, this is one of those things, which
must be accepted by faith, even though it cannot be reasoned
out. The Trinity cannot be explained, but it must be believed
because the Bible teaches it throughout. (Emphasis mine)
Charles
C. Ryrie, Basic Theology, page 55
“Even
with all the discussion and delineation that we attempt in relation
to the Trinity, we must acknowledge that it is, in final analysis,
a mystery. We accept all data as truth even though they
go beyond understanding.
(Emphasis
mine)
Walter
Martin, Essential Christianity, page 25
“No
man can fully explain the Trinity, though in every age scholars
have propounded theories and advanced hypotheses to explore
this mysterious Biblical teaching. But despite the worthy
efforts of these Scholars, the Trinity is still largely incomprehensible
to the mind of man. Perhaps the chief reason for this is
that the Trinity is a-logical, or beyond logic. It therefore,
cannot be made subject to human reason or logic.
(Emphasis
mine)
Richard
Sisson, Answering Christianity’s Most Puzzling Questions Volume
2, pages 10 and 11
The
doctrine of the triune godhead may upset the neat, logical order
of your mind, but it is taught in the Scriptures. We are
not to adjust the Bible to satisfy our sense of logic; we are
to adjust our logic to conform to the Scriptures.
(Emphasis
mine)
Henry
Morris and Martin Clark, The Bible Has the Answer, page 19
The
mystery of the Trinity is beyond the capacity of our finite
and limited minds to comprehend in it’s fullness. Although
beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend by reason,
the triune nature of God can easily be understood in the heart
by faith.
(Emphasis mine)
Well gentle reader what do these quotes all have in common?
Not a logical belief? A mystery? Just believe it and it will
be true? (Can you say circular reasoning?) A-logical? How can
something be a-logical? I mean, do you use logic to get to that
conclusion? Hmmm can you say irrational? I would go for that
before the whole a-logical thing.
There seems to be a unified theme here, it is just not
really logical but we need to believe it anyway. It is a MYSTERY.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE. Hmmm well said. Just get it over and
call it bullshit. Plain and simple.
Jesus
and God together as One.
Now looking at the bible, there are number of verses that equate
Jesus with god. Jesus said as much himself without coming right
out and saying Hey I am GOD. But then there are verses that
say the exact opposite, that he was not god, and some come from
Jesus’ own mouth. Hmmmm what gives gentle reader? I will leave
the final decision to you, and hopefully you will look into
this more
Verses for:
John
10:30
30
I
and my Father are one.
John
1:1
1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was God.
John
10:38
38
But
if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye
may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
John
14:9-11
9 Jesus
saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast
thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the
Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father
in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11
Believe
me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe
me for the very works' sake.
Col
2:9
9 For in
him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
John
20:28-29
28 And Thomas
answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen
me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen,
and yet have believed.
Hmmm
pretty simple huh? Jesus is god, god is Jesus… BUT, lets take
a look see here gentle reader:
Against.
Matt
19:17
17
And
he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good
but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep
the commandments.
John
14:28
28
Ye
have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto
you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go
unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John
7:16
16
Jesus
answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that
sent me.
Matt
27:46
46
And
about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
(Here we have Jesus talking to god, or god talking to
himself. Which is it? Will the real god please stand up?)
1
Cor 11:3
2
But I would have you know, that the head of every man
is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head
of Christ is God.
1
Peter 3:22
22
Who
is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels
and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Interesting
huh? It would seem pretty clear that Jesus is not god, and vice
versa, so what gives with the trinity doctrine? I mean do they
really expect anyone who thinks in the least bit to buy this?
Well I guess they do, and they say as we have seen before, that
you just believe it regardless. Faith, or wishful thinking,
will make it better, and still no clearer to you, but hey…that’s
god. Have a headache yet? No? Hmmm lets look at what the bible
says about god then.
The Nature of God
Okay, even though we have the finite imperfect human
logic, the bible still paints a picture of the character and
nature of god. Or maybe I just think so? (Finite logic folks)
But, the bible is rather clear one point actually, at least
Old Testament wise GOD IS ONE! The very concept that god could
be more than one, or human in any form would be strict anathema
for the Jew. But then, finite logic folks. *sigh*
OT.
Deut
4:35
35
Unto
thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he
is God; there is none else beside him.
2
Sam 7:22
22
Wherefore
thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither
is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have
heard with our ears.
Isa
46:88
9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and
there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
NT, I know......
Mark
12:29
29
And
Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear,
O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
1
Kings 8:60
60
That
all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and
that there is none else.
2
Chron 6:18
17
But
will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven
and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less
this house which I have built!
Damn
Billy Bob, god IS one!!!
Jesus
was created:
Rev
3:14
14
And
unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These
things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning
of the creation of God;
Strange
is it not? I know gentle reader, you are confused at this point…but
hey want a touch of reason? A little note just to let you know
you are not alone in your confusion? Lets see what the non Christian
scholars and other people had to say about the trinity:
Leo
Tolstoy, What is Religion
One
may say with one’s lips: ‘ I believe that god is one, and also
three’ but no one can believe it, because the words make no
sense.
Thomas
Jefferson, Jefferson´s Works, Vol 7, pages 269-70. H.A. Washington
"No
historical fact is better established, than that the doctrine
of one God, pure and uncompounded, was that of the early ages
of Christianity;.... The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like
another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth
and growth in the blood of thousand and thousands of martyrs....
In fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three
but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid
man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what
presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself.
He proves, also, that man, once surrendering his reason, has
no remaining guard against absurdities the most montrous,...
With such persons, gullability, which they call faith, takes
the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
Robert Ingersoll, Ingersoll´s Works, Vol. 4, pages266-67
Christ, according to the faith, is the second person
in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost
third. Each of these persons is God. Christ is his own father
and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but
both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before
he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just
as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his
son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was
equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to
say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other
two. So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and
the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God. According
to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three, and
three time one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction
if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is equally
peculiar: if we add two to one we have but one. Each one equal
to himself and to the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever
can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the
Trinity."
Interesting is it not gentle reader? I mean here we have
basic logic here. Understanding. Hmmmm. Think of it this way,
if Jesus was god, then when Jesus died on the cross, who ran
the universe for three days? (Although how you get three days
and nights from Friday to Sunday is also illogical. maybe at
best 2 nights and three days. But that is another essay in it’s
self.) God cannot die, and bring himself back to life… or could
he? Could Jesus raise himself? Well sure if he was god, but
wait a sec…. God would be dead to, dammit bob, we have a problem
here.
Analogy Time
A very common way apologists try to get out of this happy
little dilemma (other than just crying like a bitch “it is a
mystery, don’t understand, just believe”) is to use the water
analogy. Solid, one stage of water, Liquid, another stage of
water, and Gas…the last stage. Hmmmm, interesting is it not?
BUT, does it add up? Well if god was water sure. If water has
three stages, god does to, and can manifest in the different
personages. Ha!! I showed the atheist!!!! (The cry of the Christian)
But the part that fails here gentle reader is that water
cannot exist in all three stages at the same time. Period. Oops.
Nice try though. I liked it a lot.
I would
like to leave you with the words of Dennis McKinsey here gentle
reader:
When all parallels and analogies have been destroyed
and the press of the wall from behind is growing, biblicists
will usually retreat to the “It’s a mystery subterfuge. Every
time Christians come to an obligatory concept that is totally
irrational, they seek to invoke the subterfuge of “mystery”.
In truth, there is nothing mysterious about the trinity. It
is nothing more than a blatant impossibility with a heavy overlay
of contradiction and irrationality. Logic, reason, common sense,
and reality play no role in the equation, whatever.
Biblical
Errancy, page 128.
