The Trinity, Solid or Sorry?                              

  • by Mark Napier

  • Hello gentle reader, today we look at the doctrine of the Trinity. You know, the concept that God is a triune deity, or three in one godhead type deal. Three equals one, and one equals three when you ask a Christian. Some neato math huh? I have not been able to figure it out myself, although I am sure that it is only my finite human mind. My wisdom is limited and all that when it comes to god and really understanding the scriptures.


                    Scriptures: lets look and see when we actually get the trinity from, in the bible of course, even though there is no single verse or group of verses ANYWHERE in the bible that says that god is a trinity.  (All for one and one for all and all that)…so off we go…(note: these are the four major verses used to justify the trinity belief judge for yourself)


    (All King James unless otherwise noted)


    1 Peter 1:2

    2         Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.


    1 John 5:7

    7         For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


    2 Cor. 13:14

     14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.



    Matt 28:19

     19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



    Now if you can gather that these verses justify the trinity, then they flat contradict other verses in the bible, that are pretty clear about god and all being one, and if they do not justify it, then just leave em alone okay? Do any of you all understand this ? Hmmm… I do not either. And neither does most of the Christian apologists, lets see what a few of them have to say:


    M.R. DeHaan, 508 Answers to Bible Questions, page 168


    The Trinity, that is three persons in one, is a mystery which is revealed in the Bible, but cannot be understood by the human mind. Since man is finite, this is one of those things, which must be accepted by faith, even though it cannot be reasoned out. The Trinity cannot be explained, but it must be believed because the Bible teaches it throughout. (Emphasis mine)



    Charles C. Ryrie, Basic Theology, page 55


    “Even with all the discussion and delineation that we attempt in relation to the Trinity, we must acknowledge that it is, in final analysis, a mystery. We accept all data as truth even though they go beyond understanding.

    (Emphasis mine)



    Walter Martin, Essential Christianity, page 25


    “No man can fully explain the Trinity, though in every age scholars have propounded theories and advanced hypotheses to explore this mysterious Biblical teaching. But despite the worthy efforts of these Scholars, the Trinity is still largely incomprehensible to the mind of man. Perhaps the chief reason for this is that the Trinity is a-logical, or beyond logic. It therefore, cannot be made subject to human reason or logic.

    (Emphasis mine)



    Richard Sisson, Answering Christianity’s Most Puzzling Questions Volume 2, pages 10 and 11


    The doctrine of the triune godhead may upset the neat, logical order of your mind, but it is taught in the Scriptures. We are not to adjust the Bible to satisfy our sense of logic; we are to adjust our logic to conform to the Scriptures.

    (Emphasis mine)


    Henry Morris and Martin Clark, The Bible Has the Answer, page 19


    The mystery of the Trinity is beyond the capacity of our finite and limited minds to comprehend in it’s fullness. Although beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend by reason, the triune nature of God can easily be understood in the heart by faith.

      (Emphasis mine)




                    Well gentle reader what do these quotes all have in common? Not a logical belief? A mystery? Just believe it and it will be true? (Can you say circular reasoning?) A-logical? How can something be a-logical? I mean, do you use logic to get to that conclusion? Hmmm can you say irrational? I would go for that before the whole a-logical thing.  There seems to be a unified theme here, it is just not really logical but we need to believe it anyway. It is a MYSTERY. INCOMPREHENSIBLE. Hmmm well said. Just get it over and call it bullshit. Plain and simple.



    Jesus and God together as One.



                     Now looking at the bible, there are number of verses that equate Jesus with god. Jesus said as much himself without coming right out and saying Hey I am GOD. But then there are verses that say the exact opposite, that he was not god, and some come from Jesus’ own mouth. Hmmmm what gives gentle reader? I will leave the final decision to you, and hopefully you will look into this more


                    Verses for:

    John 10:30

    30      I and my Father are one.



    John 1:1

    1         In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.



    John 10:38

    38      But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


    John 14:9-11

           9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    11      Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.



    Col 2:9

       9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.                                                      


    John 20:28-29

          28  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    29  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.



    Hmmm pretty simple huh? Jesus is god, god is Jesus… BUT, lets take a look see here gentle reader:





    Matt 19:17

    17      And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


    John 14:28

    28      Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


    John 7:16

    16      Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.


    Matt 27:46

    46      And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?  (Here we have Jesus talking to god, or god talking to himself. Which is it? Will the real god please stand up?)


    1 Cor 11:3

    2         But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


    1 Peter 3:22

    22      Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.




    Interesting huh? It would seem pretty clear that Jesus is not god, and vice versa, so what gives with the trinity doctrine? I mean do they really expect anyone who thinks in the least bit to buy this? Well I guess they do, and they say as we have seen before, that you just believe it regardless. Faith, or wishful thinking, will make it better, and still no clearer to you, but hey…that’s god. Have a headache yet? No? Hmmm lets look at what the bible says about god then.



    The Nature of God


                    Okay, even though we have the finite imperfect human logic, the bible still paints a picture of the character and nature of god. Or maybe I just think so? (Finite logic folks) But, the bible is rather clear one point actually, at least Old Testament wise GOD IS ONE! The very concept that god could be more than one, or human in any form would be strict anathema for the Jew. But then, finite logic folks. *sigh*





    Deut 4:35

    35      Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.


    2 Sam 7:22

    22      Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.


    Isa 46:88

    9   Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,



      NT, I know......

    Mark 12:29

    29      And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:


    1 Kings 8:60

    60      That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.


    2 Chron 6:18

    17      But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!


    Damn Billy Bob, god IS one!!!


    Jesus was created:



    Rev 3:14

    14      And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


     Strange is it not? I know gentle reader, you are confused at this point…but hey want a touch of reason? A little note just to let you know you are not alone in your confusion? Lets see what the non Christian scholars and other people had to say about the trinity:


    Leo Tolstoy, What is Religion 

    One may say with one’s lips: ‘ I believe that god is one, and also three’ but no one can believe it, because the words make no sense.



    Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson´s Works, Vol 7, pages 269-70. H.A. Washington


    "No historical fact is better established, than that the doctrine of one God, pure and uncompounded, was that of the early ages of Christianity;.... The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousand and thousands of martyrs.... In fact, the Athanasian paradox that one is three, and three but one, is so incomprehensible to the human mind, that no candid man can say he has any idea of it, and how can he believe what presents no idea? He who thinks he does, only deceives himself. He proves, also, that man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most montrous,... With such persons, gullability, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."


    Robert Ingersoll, Ingersoll´s Works, Vol. 4, pages266-67

    Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost third. Each of these persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say, before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two. So it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son and the Holy Ghost God, and these three Gods make one God. According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three, and three time one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if we take two from three, three are left. The addition is equally peculiar: if we add two to one we have but one. Each one equal to himself and to the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity."


                    Interesting is it not gentle reader? I mean here we have basic logic here. Understanding. Hmmmm. Think of it this way, if Jesus was god, then when Jesus died on the cross, who ran the universe for three days? (Although how you get three days and nights from Friday to Sunday is also illogical. maybe at best 2 nights and three days. But that is another essay in it’s self.) God cannot die, and bring himself back to life… or could he? Could Jesus raise himself? Well sure if he was god, but wait a sec…. God would be dead to, dammit bob, we have a problem here.


    Analogy Time


                    A very common way apologists try to get out of this happy little dilemma (other than just crying like a bitch “it is a mystery, don’t understand, just believe”) is to use the water analogy. Solid, one stage of water, Liquid, another stage of water, and Gas…the last stage. Hmmmm, interesting is it not? BUT, does it add up? Well if god was water sure. If water has three stages, god does to, and can manifest in the different personages. Ha!! I showed the atheist!!!! (The cry of the Christian)  But the part that fails here gentle reader is that water cannot exist in all three stages at the same time. Period. Oops. Nice try though. I liked it a lot.  


    I would like to leave you with the words of Dennis McKinsey here gentle reader:


                    When all parallels and analogies have been destroyed and the press of the wall from behind is growing, biblicists will usually retreat to the “It’s a mystery subterfuge. Every time Christians come to an obligatory concept that is totally irrational, they seek to invoke the subterfuge of “mystery”. In truth, there is nothing mysterious about the trinity. It is nothing more than a blatant impossibility with a heavy overlay of contradiction and irrationality. Logic, reason, common sense, and reality play no role in the equation, whatever.

    Biblical Errancy, page 128.

Well again playtime is over boys and girls, I am so glad you came to play on my Island. I hope to see you again real soon, and that you enjoyed yourselves, I know I did… now let me change into my old comfy sweater…. (cue Mr. Rogers Neighborhood music)


Click Here to Visit!